Stop PATRIONIZING me and acting so CHRISTISCENDING!

Current Location: @Home with my Skeptics Annotated KJV
Current Mood: anxious
Current Music: A boy called Brian - Monty Python

Well, it would appear that we are still teaching children about the End of the World and how they really need to be concerned about it.  Far be it from me to impose, but it does seem that having an authority figure tell children that their lives pretty much mean nothing more than getting to watch the world erupt in flames is a bit traumatizing.  But, that's just me and my thoughts.

It would seem that the end of the world is coming soon.  Well, I guess with the one verse given in that video, we should be concerned.  It does say that it will be quick, but it does not really say when.  Now I'm not to keen on trying to read into prophecy here.  After all Revalation 22:18-19 says, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."  If that passage is correct, we need to go exactly with what the Bible says.  Nothing more, and certainly nothing less.  And since I’m trying to go from a sola scriptura answer to the end of the world, the search has to assume that the accurate answer is in ONLY the bible with no outside sources allowed or needed.

Well, first off, the bible does say that the end of the world will come soon.  We can see that in such verses as:

Philippians 4:5 "Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand."

James 5:8 "Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."

Hebrews 10:37 "For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry."

Revalation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

Revalation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

Revelation 3:11 "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

Revelation 22:7 "Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book."

Revelation 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

Well, that is a lot of subjective terms, they say things like at hand, draweth nigh, and coming quickly and the like.  However, to try to put a time limit on these things?  Wouldn't all this fuss about the end coming within this generation be to "add unto these things"?  Since the Bible is said to be revealed, wouldn't there be a quantification?  Something there so that we wouldn't have to guess?  Well, it just so happens that there is!  A lot in fact.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8 "So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

1 Corinthians 7:29 "But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;"

Philippians 1:10 "That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ."

1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

1 Thessalonians 5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

Hebrews 9:26 "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

1 Peter 4:7 "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."

1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

This is still a little vague, but it is obvious that in all these verses, the authors of the new testament were telling their people that THEY THEMSELVES were going to see the end of the world, thus they had to behave as perfect Christians until the day that Jesus came back to end the world.  After all, you could know the end time by the coming of the anti-Christ and according to 1 John 2:18, there are a lot of them around.  Certainly then that was the end time.

Yes you see what I am saying here.  The verses that say the end is coming soon don't give a relative soon, they are clarified in the earlier books.  Paul, Peter, and John say a number of times here that the end is coming within the life times of the people alive then!  You may not believe me on this still, so I have even more proof for you.  And I'm not even going outside the bible for this.  See those verses, though letters to actual groups, may be taken to mean anyone that gets to read them, they really weren't that specific, so my assumption that Paul meant only the Corinthians, Thessalonians and Hebrews at THAT TIME is a bit presumptuous and dangerous if Revalation 22:18-19 are still correct.

So here it is from the mouth of the man himself.  Jesus, go right ahead and tell us EXACTLY what the timeframe for the end of the world is.

Matthew16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Matthew 23:36 "Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation."

Matthew 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Matthew 26:64 "Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

Mark 13:30 "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

Mark 14:62 "And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

Luke 9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."

Luke 21:32 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

John 21:22 "Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."

Well, there you have it.  Jesus, speaking directly to his disciples said very plainly, that he would return in their lifetimes!  Some of them would not taste death until those things came to pass!  Therefore, this leaves us with only a few conclusions we can draw.

1)      2000 years later, there are still some of the original disciples alive on this planet, still waiting for the prophecies to be fulfilled.

2)      The end of the World has already happened and nobody noticed it.

3)      The bible was wrong about when the world would end.

Well, in all debates the surest bet baring more information is the premise that is the simplest one.  The simple way is that the bible is just wrong about this, because the other two are so absurd as to be simply comical.

There is no end of the world coming.  There never was, it never happened and it will not happen.  The best thing one can get for the end of the world is in a few hundred million years when our sun goes nova.  Stop telling children that their lives are pointless because the god that they love has a great plan to destroy the earth in a spectacle of blood and suffering.  Stop jumping to the pulpit every time another country goes to war and blaming it on the prophesized end of the world and instead see that most of the wars fought recently have their roots in religious intolerance.  Get back to living and stop worshiping the death of all things!

Current Mood: angry

I attempted to send this to Paula Zahn's Now comments section but the length was a bit much for the form.  I sent a condensed version, but here's my complete version.  Enjoy.

I have just finished watching the special report on discrimination against atheists in America, and after watching the panel of "experts" and the way the discussion was handled, I can easily say that you have just proven that discrimination does exist and that this show was only made to enforce it.  I have had to suppress outrage and anger at what I saw tonight in order to voice a letter of complaint.  What your show has done harkens to a vision of discussing African American Rights by inviting David Duke, George Wallace, and Strom Thurmond.  This is like debating Same-sex rights with Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, and Ted Haggard.  You cannot seriously expect the atheists in the public to believe what your show has done was unbiased after having not a single atheist or even a non-theist like a deist or an agnostic to speak for the side of the alleged oppressed.

Instead, two Christians and a woman who’s Judaism I greatly question treated us to a regurgitation of propaganda.  Only Steven Smith said anything in our defense, but his disagreements were weakly squeaked forth through his apologetics and rhetoric.  The injustice of this "debate was very well summed up here...

Paula Zahn: "Are any of you going to defend them here tonight?"

Karen Hunter: "No, I agree with her one hundred percent."

Some of the statements were either so enraging or false, that I feel I need to call attention to them.

Debbie Schlesle:  "What does an atheists believe, nothing, right."

I may lack belief in a god, a higher power, a sky man, a holy book, or a divine code of honor but I still have values.  I value freedom, democracy, human rights, and the power to make up our own minds.  I hold to beliefs that were fought for and had blood shed for them by men and women of all creeds, colors, and heritages.  I am an American and I believe in the rights my great country affords me.  I hold to the moral code of humanism.  If I see a person suffering, I am called by my belief to help.  I believe that since we cannot know if there is a life beyond this one, we should do all we can to make this one right and good.  If that is nothing, then yes, I stand for nothing.

Debbie Schlesle: "Are we going to take in god we trust off of our dollars?  Are we not going to say one nation under god?"

In the beginning of this nation, we did not.  It was good enough for Jefferson, Adams, Washington and Franklin.  It was good enough for Grant, Lincoln and Roosevelt.  Why do we say it now?  Theocratic maneuvering is the only reason.  Both were added in the 50s by Christian groups to stifle atheism.  Given this, reasoning, I do feel we have a right to want them gone.

The original Pledge read as follows: I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.    After a proclamation by President Benjamin Harrison, the Pledge was first used in public schools on October 12, 1892 during Columbus Day observances. The form adopted inserted the word "to" before "the Republic."  In 1923 and 1924, the National Flag Conference called for the words 'my Flag' to be changed to 'the Flag of the United States of America'.  These phrases were all added to enhance the message of a unified America.  When the words 'under God' were finally added in 1954, it was not to bring Americans together, it was advocated by a minister to 'remind America of the America Lincoln wanted' though he misquoted the Gettysburg Address to make this point.

The 'In god we trust' on our money needs no such length explanation.  The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes Atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian.  There you have it, the McCarthy era linking of communism and atheism resulted in this.  Certainly Communism does advocate atheism, but one cannot make the logical argument that "For all x then y, therefore for all y then x” All communists may be atheists, but all atheists are not communists.  There is no good reason for this to be here today, the McCarthy Witch hunt is over.

Debbie Schlesle: "We took prayer out of school what more do they want?"

How about the ability to not fear losing our jobs for being publicly atheist?  How about the right to, as Christians put Jesus fish and bible verse bumper stickers on their cars without fear, to be able to put large pro-atheism signs on my vehicle and not have to worry about it being vandalized?

Karen Hunter: "We are a Christian Nation."

Steven Smith: "We're a Christian Country, there's no question about that."

Oh really?  Then why does the declaration of Independence only mention a vague 'creator'?  Could I not consider my family my creator that endowed me with my rights?  If we are a Christian nation, explain why the constitution has no mention of God or Jesus or the Bible?  If we are a Christian nation, why allow the first amendment, which allows a person to worship any god they want, which clearly breaks the First Commandment of having no strange gods?  If we are a Christian nation then why does article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli state "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;"?  I find it odd that people constantly claim what is not true, and do so even though we in the Non-Theistic community have pointed this out numerous times.

Karen Hunter: "... Freedom of Religion does not mean Freedom from Religion."

Then I guess that since Christians have no freedom from religion, they would have no problem with that Shamanist I know coming to the school to offer up prayers and rituals to the spirits of nature.  Did I mention that some of the offerings to certain spirits are best done naked?  They cannot really say anything about that though, since we do not have freedom from his religion.  He is obviously more than welcome to teach your children all about Father Coyote and what not.  No, that would not work.  The Christian religion prohibits such things, and to have him bring this before your children would greatly impede your ability to practice freely.  We have freedom for religion when we are in our private homes and places of worship.  In places where all Americans are affected such as tax-funded institutions, all beliefs must be respected, and the best way to do this is to not display any of them.

Debbie Schlesle: "They have a horrible PR rep, and they don't have good marketing.  If they had Hallmark cards maybe they wouldn't feel so left out."

Of course this would never result in a person caught buying an atheist card from being the target of the same discrimination we face now.  How dare an issue of oppression be trivialized into Hallmark cards!  Even reading that line again causes my ire to well up.  I guess the Jews in Nazi Germany should have just gotten their Happy Chanukah cards out sooner.  I guess there should have been more Black People cards in America during the 50's and 60's, I bet then the black community would not have felt so left out.  We are the target of discrimination, and this "expert on the issue" trivializes us to holiday greetings.

Debbie Schlesle: "I think they [atheists] need to shut up, and let people do what they do."

Karen Hunter: "They are on the attack, it is obnoxious and they do need to shut up."

Transpose the atheist 'they' in this sentence with any other group that has face oppression in the past.  I bet they heard that a lot too.  And I can bet that Debbie would not be where she is today if her parents and grandparents had just shut up and let the people opposing them do what they did.

Debbie Schlesle: "Then don't pray; don't say one nation under god..."

It is easy to say it.  It is harder to do this in practice.  I was scolded in school by my teacher in front of the whole classroom for not saying the whole pledge when I left out Under God since I did not believe in it.  We can simply not do the thing or not say the thing, but we are then very easily singled out in a crowd, as Debbie feels that we are not.

Debbie Schlesle: "Don't impose upon my right to want to have prayer in school [etc]"

We do not impose on your rights to fight for it or want it.  We demand that we be allowed the same right to fight for not having it.

Debbie Schlesle: "We're not inclusionary!"

I do not like the America that Debbie thinks we live in, where we just forget that people all through out history have been oppressed, singled out, and abused for something they believe or are.  Where it is okay to hate the new group because we are different.  America is inclusionary.  E Pluribus Unum!  From many, one.  The original motto of this country declared that while we are all different people, we all come together, included as one, as America.

Finally, the most erroneous statement... one that I feel will soon be disproved.

Karen Hunter: "... and I think Atheists are not strong, and that's a good thing."

I am raising up my strength here and now!  I can only guess the numbers of atheists that have written in angry at this debacle.  I can only begin to imagine the public outcry we will make in our forums.  We are not weak.  We stand up for what we believe and we will not be shamed by a horrible biased report!  We are not weak and it is good that we are not.  It is bad for intolerance that we are strong.  Atheists are no longer quiet and the Theistic world is doing everything it can to try to shame us underground again.  Well, we are not going to go away.  We are out here, and we are going to stand strong.

Current Mood: sleepy

It was late, I was very tired and just couldn't sleep while this was in my system.  You ever start to go to sleep, only to look at something you planned on doing tomorrow, only to have it not want to wait?  That's like this.

Sweet Evil Jesus was this message a hoot to reformat.  Sent down the tubes of the internet and nearly choking my browser and my optical nerves with its Baskerville Old Face, 18pt, Bolded, Italicized and bright blue font.  If you are wondering what that looks like, it LOOKED SOMETHING LIKE THIS! AMEN!

Living in the Detroit area I can concur with this, we have more Muslims moving into our neighborhood monthly and they are very active in the schools, preaching all the time about their "rights" and how tolerant we should be of their faith.
>Good for them:  Activity in the community shows concern for one’s surroundings, community, country, and fellow humans.  Also given the state of the world right now it is no wonder that they would be calling out for tolerance.  Most people see beards and burkas and immediately assume bombs.

 However, toleration is a one-way street with them.  We are to learn about Ramadan, etc. but they are not to learn about Easter or Christmas.

>This I will agree with as a very bad thing.  I would not think to ask someone to understand Humanlight and Festivus without trying to understand their customs and beliefs.  We get nowhere and shoving our own customs onto others, they must be exchanged.  So you hear that Muslims, I’m keeping a score here, and you’ve just lost a point, Christ 0 Mohammed -1

What is below is very true.

>The careful reader always discounts a “This is totally True!” especially if this statement was in an email.  The last time I saw that tag, it was followed by requests for money from Nigerian Royalty.

"In God We Trust"

>Do you mind if I just change this real quick?  “E Pluribus Unum.”  I prefer that one.

The Basics of Islam...

>Whoa now, be careful.  A title like that, and I might expect some history or foundational tenants.  You’ve got something to live up to Christians.

This is a must-read -- it's short but Very informative!

>More with the build-up.  Must-read!  All True!

Bull Shit, I'm willing to wager.

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!

>Oh dear me, statistical statement and no sources to back it up?  I’m sorry but that’s going to cost you a point right or wrong (Christ-1 Mohammed-1).  And I am also afraid to say that you are DEAD WRONG.  Allow me to state a source and then elaborate.

Source http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions

Of the larges religions in the US, the top 5 per percentage growths were Deism (+717% Go fighting deists!  Keep those numbers rising!), Sikhism (+338%), New Age (+240%), Hinduism (+238%), and Baha’i (+200%).

But the figure was per capita, or per person.  So by that, the number of people that joined Islam could be higher than these right?  Well, surprisingly, none of these religions made it into the per capita top five, the ones that did rank thusly

#1 Nonreligious/Secular +14,423,000

#2 Christianity +7,805,000

#3 Atheism +902,000

#4 Buddhism +681,000

#5 Islam +577,000

Wow!  That poor Islamic religion just cannot win.   It is just barely in the top five.  It looks like you have got more to worry about from the Christians and Buddhist than from them.  Therefore, this was not just a lie, but also a flat out, bold-faced lie… I am feeling generous, so no more point deductions about this, but you had better watch yourself from now on.

Allah or Jesus?

>God or Son-of-god… Coke or Pepsi… None of the above.  The High Fructose Corn Syrup makes my pancreas scream for mercy, and the god-heads make other people scream for mercy.

 By Rick Mathes

>A name to check up on…  Will do…

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.  During the training session, there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.

>Really no problem with this selection, two polar opposite Christian sects and another Abrahamic Religion, since the monotheisms tend to have the more stringent guidelines and the highest chance of stepping on another’s toes.  Don’t really need an Atheist up there.

“We believe in nothing.  I’m done, you can go now.”

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam (interruption for a definition, Imam is an honorific title given in Islamic societies, they could be a leader of a country, a cleric, or just the local Muslim that leads others in prayers.  Depending on this man’s level of Imam, he could either be an authority, or just a local voice) had to say.  The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam complete with a video.  After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

>Q&A is my favorite time of anything.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked, "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world.  In addition, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in Heaven.  If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

>Techincally correct… However, once again this is a statement sans sources.  Therefore, that is another point off.  Secondly many Muslim Imams and Clerics have issued Fatwas ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8740980/ ) against such radical statements commanding that the true message of Allah and Mohammed is to love  and teach the infidel so that in his own time, he shall come to see the righteous way.  Obviously, this particular Imam did not get that memo or did not care about it. 

Either way, it is safe to say that if this man did not disagree with the kill the non-believer = get into heaven free card, it is a safe assumption that even by his own religion he is considered an extremist, ESPECIALY as he is a US Imam and the aforementioned fatwa was from US Clerics.

At the end of this round its Mohammed -2 Christianity -2

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven.  Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.  He sheepishly replied, "Yes".

>Hooray!  What a way to show that Christianity is religiously tolerant; by making a fool of this man in public.  Yes, I will concede that this man is an extremist and a fool, but the words I am reading now are of a man so puffed up by his own smiting of the wicked that this Imam is now being addressed as a child.  Practically, however, these questions do not really help anyone out with work place sensitivity training, as secular law forbids killing and since it would not really come into play in the office.

I then stated, "Well, Sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul II commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith, or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

>The problem here is that historically I do not have a problem imagining this occurring.  The pope ordered extermination if Muslim peoples for the “liberation” of Jerusalem during the crusades and Protestant leaders now feature war propaganda and messages of getting ready to fight and die for Jesus in their services ( http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/  ).

The Imam was speechless.  I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me.”

>Which they are not actually.

“Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

>Or maybe we could look at it with the other view of the Koran (5:8) that tells us to not hate any man and treat others fairly and Jesus who tells us that he is here to make it so that the father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father, etc. (Luke 12:53).  Both books and religions love to forget that they both contain some messages of good when they need to look nice, but once you’re in there, they have all the hate propaganda you’ll need.

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

>You could have heard it if not for the fanfare of pride in Rick’s head.  Isn’t pride a sin?

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the "Diversification" training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim beliefs.

>I wouldn’t be either.  He didn’t expose the truth about anything but the motivations of Islamic extremists by acting like a good Christian extremist and having nothing but contempt for the beliefs of others.

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

>I think everyone should be required to read a lot of things, but it doesn’t happen for one reason or another, but… sob… this won’t be read because the liberals are mean to you.  Oh, you want to bet?  I’ll help you.  The problem is, you have to deal with my additions being along for the ride (I hate leaving unchecked facts).  I’ll have all of my friends send this around.  Hell, I’ll put it on fliers (to those reading this on the fliers, what’s up in the world of paper media?)  Nevertheless, here again, as in the last email, we have something against the ACLU.  What do they get to say about you emailing this to everyone?  Get over your fear of non-believers and grow a belief-spine.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry.

>Rick Mathes and his wife, Trish, are the founders of Mission Gate Prison Ministries, an outreach to those who are incarcerated and their families.  This is true and will not be argued, but I found something interesting in my digging around and now the people demanding that this be passed around are going to be sorry they did!

From http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/rickmathes.html (a website dedicated to debunking chain mail myths)

The veracity of the claims made in it, however, is the author's to prove. Unfortunately, Rick Mathes told BreakTheChain.org that he will not provide further details because, in his words, "I fear retribution - I have a 20 year prison ministry to protect."

Apparently, two interesting points have come up in the third party accounts.  One is that the speaker was simply an inmate chosen to speak after no Imam could be arranged.  The other is that though he was asked some question he could not answer, none on the vein of the question within this message were asked.

Then in Mathes’ own words

"We all agree that there is a "simmering volcano" in the Muslim community. Give me an Imam that will sing "God Bless America" or will say the "Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag" and I will listen to them discredit the fears we have about the Muslim community and all that we see and hear in the media. Until the American Muslim community speaks up, I have my doubts about those who join them."

Well, Mr. Mathes, they have.  I guess you were not listening when they declared that terrorism was not part of their religion or when they renounced those that include it in their beliefs.  “We” do not all agree that every Muslim is just looking for the chance to topple the western world.

I ask that anyone who has received this email send this version back up the tubes!  The people that sent it have a right to know that they were duped and the world has a right to have some light shone into the dark places where lies and fear fester to burn them out and clear out the cobwebs. 

Peace and Humanism to all!  Humanistic Jones

p.s. Don’t think I forgot that I was keeping a score.  In the end neither side gained any points and both ended up dead equal in the negative.  Short summary, you both came out looking like jerks.

Oh boy, it got good during the downtime.  I feel that since I talk about politics here (what little I do talk) I should bring up that though I'm disappointed by the lack of independent candidates being elected, I am happy to see that the Republican majority's patronizing of the Christian Conservative base was seen through on all sides.  A religion that likes to have power does not really take to well to being jerked around.

On to my (should be) usual habit of taking the emails I'm getting from random sources that just smack of, well, lack of mental fortitude and dissecting them.  Here is one that I received recently.  Like the last, this one employs the tactic of playing to our men and women fighting in foreign wars as an appeal to religion.  More over, this email takes a very interesting stance on Atheism and the American Civil Liberties Union.  I am not sure when the ACLU became a bad word like Liberal and Atheist, but I guess it is now.  So now it is on to see one of "Our men in Action".  Please note that my only edits to this were for readability as it appeared to have been formatted by a coke-addicted monkey with no index fingers.

--------------------------

Subject: Our men in action

One of our men in action!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>I will now borrow from Penny-Arcade.com.  Hey kids, remember with me, Exclamation Point, it is either one or none!

A United States Marine was attending some college courses between assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the ACLU.

>Well, I have no real problem with character exposition in a story.  I know where this marine is coming from and that he likes to better himself by attending classes whenever he gets the opportunity.

One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes."

>I have lost my suspension of disbelief at this point.  Universities do not simply pick professors up off the streets.  They select them based on professionalism as well as familiarity with their subject.  I have a hard time believing that any professor of any subject would just walk in a do this.  True I did have a professor to walk in and ask, “What’s so important about this Jesus guy, anyway?”  However, in his defense he was a World History professor, we were covering the Roman Empire, and a student had stated the previous day that the most important person in the Roman era was Jesus.  This is simply the author’s biased attempt to pain a man, whom all that the reader knows about him is his religion, occupation, and organizational affiliation, as a bad man.

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting."

>Okay, now given the previously absurd occurrence, I can actually believe this part.  As a deist, I cannot see any other result than “God” not giving a single thought to an insignificant human speck in the universe and its challenge.

It got down to the last couple of minutes when the Marine got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him, knocking him off the platform.  The professor was out cold. The Marine went back to his seat and sat there, silently.

>Point one, this Marine is now guilty of Assault and Battery, and should now be in jail.  His patriotism and veteran status aside, this man is now a criminal.  Point two; most professors would be smart enough to get out of the way of the large marine coming toward them angrily.  Once again, author, you are telling me a story I just cannot get into.  You have no skill at the necessity of suspension of disbelief.  Hell, I was more apt to believe in the Giant Worm Emperor in God Emperor of Dune than I am to believe in your thug of a marine and your jerk of a professor.

The other students were shocked and stunned and sat there looking on in silence. The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Marine and asked, "What the hell is the matter with you? Why did you do that?"

>And every single one of these people, professor included should have just called some cops.  Nevertheless, the professor is quite right to wonder what this marine’s problem is.

The Marine calmly replied, "God was busy today protecting America's soldiers who are protecting your right to say stupid shit and act like an asshole. ...............So, He sent me."

>And the marine escaped his assault charges.  The professor, now disgraced, lost his job for hating God.  After much soul searching, he would later join the marine’s church and renounce his membership to the dread ACLU.  Is that what I am to conclude from this?  God did not knock that professor off the podium, a marine with anger issues did.  No divine revelation happened here; the Marine felt his belief in god stretching and decided to act in a manner that belied his inability to accept that god might not be as personal as his seniors taught him.

It is interesting that the marine in this story started out painted as intelligent, only to immediately become a violent thug reduced to vulgar vocabulary.  I quite immediately lost all sympathy for that character and his pathos.  The professor, on the other hand, was the victim of a brutally violent attack for no other reason then his own religious beliefs.

Instead of convincing me that Christianity has the moral high ground, this story showed me that it breeds violent action against the defenseless.  Your story did not move me to belief, but drove me farther from it.  Not only that, but you gave me something to add to my building pile of examples that the faith created by rebellious believers in the faith of a group of desert wanderers with a persecution complex has no place in our modern world.

On a slightly different note, what did the ACLU have to do with any of this?  The exposition gave us this fact about the professor, and I felt it should play into the story at some point.  However, I was left hanging as his membership in this organization was just tossed in and never cam up again.  Just thought I’d let you know.

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Well, there is another one down.  You know I think I feel a bigger rebuttal coming on, but that will have to wait.  Have fun, all you people of the internet!

Peace and Humanism to all,

Humanistic Jones

p.s. Buy Richard Dawkin’s new book, The God Delusion.  The man is a genius… and an atheist… though as he is British I don’t think he’s a member of the ACLU.  So at least you are all safe from the dreaded ACLU here.